Point Comfort

[Donald H.Flayhart]

Vern,

You are absolutely correct - the Baltimore Steam Packet Co (Old Bay Line [OBL]) was the longest lived subsidiary of the Seaboard Air Line RR (1840-1962). This railroad wholly owned the OBL, although after the 1941 merger between OBL and rival Chesapeake Line, SAL owned just 50% of OBL, with Southern Rwy and Atlantic Coast Line RR owning one-third and one-sixth, respectively.

One interesting item....the Panama Canal Act of 1916 mandated railroads divest themselves of any competing water carriers. However, the ICC ruled OBL was an integral component of SAL, thereby permitting SAL to retain control of OBL. Also, the ICC allowed ACL and SouRy to continue their ownership of the Chesapeake Line.

OBL was also under control of the USRA during WWI, at which time its operations were combined with those of the Chesapeake Line.

Finally, once OBL vessels were unloaded at the Norfolk pier, they then sailed across the Elizabeth River to Portsmouth, where unloading/loading of cargo took place. Portsmouth, of course, was SAL HQ for many years, and terminus of a line which began in Norlina, NC. [junction with main line between Richmond-Raleigh, and points south].

SOURCES: THRU THE HEART OF THE SOUTH [SAL RR STORY].
................STEAM PACKETS ON THE CHESAPEAKE.

[HwyHaulier]

Vern,

You are absolutely correct - the Baltimore Steam Packet Co (Old Bay Line [OBL]) was the longest lived subsidiary of the Seaboard Air Line RR (1840-1962). This railroad wholly owned the OBL...

Don -

Many thanks! An aspect of S A L often overlooked (as the look at the trains genre of fans have little interest in the business management and related) is the outcome when one follows the money. S A L was clearly a maverick, and definitely not in the J. P. Morgan camp. Much of the S A L money was under the stewardship of Baltimore houses. So that S A L can be thought a creature of the Roland Park crowd....

Differential rates protected? Oh, here's where the old days on the rate desk kicked in. Recall, so much cargo within, and in and out of, the South dependent on water movement. So that there was the widespread presence of water/ rail joint moves. Seems to me that rates were subject to differentials. That is, the segment moved via steamship had lower rates than direct rail on the same segment. Also, it explains the later enmity towards Federal Barge Lines of the Southern Lines...

Finally, and this is ranging well OT, the fascinating relationship between S A L, and both StL-SF (Frisco) and C R I & P. Back in the 1920s there was a regular Pullman Car "line" between Denver and St. Petersburg, FL (see Prince)....

.....................Vern...................

[brilliner]

It is generally forgotten that SAL brought a lot of money to BAL. William and Henry Walters are remembered as being art collectors who left their collection to the city of Baltimore, but it was SAL money that bought all of that art which people may enjoy today.

When war broke out in 1941, the feds were quick to scarf up all the vessels they could find for use as troop carriers. The OBL and the Merchants & Miners were raided. The Dorchester, which was later torpedoed carrying the Four Chaplains to their deaths, was an M&M vessel, IIRC.

The pride of the OBL, the President Warfeld was pressed into wartime service. The Richmond, Norfolk, and District were deemed un seaworty for transatlantic service and thus survived the war.

The Warfield was released from wartime service around 1946. OBL officials looked at it, but it was too far gone for a return to service and so it remained tied up and looking for a buyer.

Several Zionists from the Baltimore area were instrumental in the purchase of the vessel for use in carrying Jewish refugees to what was then known as Palestine. In this rold it became the "Exodus". The ship later sank in a harbor in Israel and its remains were in the water for many years.

I saw a beautiful model of the Warfield in the waiting room of the OBL on Pratt Street. I don't know what happened to this model when the line ceased service.

[HwyHaulier]

It is generally forgotten that SAL brought a lot of money to BAL. William and Henry Walters are remembered as being art collectors who left their collection to the city of Baltimore, but it was SAL money that bought all of that art which people may enjoy today...

Brilliner -

Oh, hear, hear! Also the circa 1936 flap about Simpsons, Wallaces, King Edward VIII abdicating the Throne. Britannia rules the waves! Society notes in (the at the time mighty and thundering) Sunpapers. Southerners largely sulking about the reported outcome of the War Of Northern Aggression...

It's all in the book! <G>

....................Vern..............

[BoltonStboy]

I was stationed at Fort Monroe, on Old Point Comfort, when I came back from overseas, a loong time ago. Nixon was my boss, I tell folks. I was a trained killer for him.

Even then, there was talk of closing the place.

The Chamberlin is on post, facing the water, across the street from the command building. I worked inside that, so I saw it every day.

In those days, access to the fort and thus the hotel was easier than the current post 9-11 strictures. What used to be called "open post". The article mentions that as a cause for the hotels decline in recent years. I can just imagine a wedding party stopped at the gate showing their ID and insurance cards to some PFC, enroute to their reception. Metaphor, anyone?

The fort dates from prior to the civil war, and when I was there was the only moated active duty post in the U.S. Army. There is an actual moat, fed by the tides, around the inner part of the fort, which was walled. The casemates inside the walls, formerly used for cannon, were offices. Some of the old coast artillery positions along the waterfront were in use as offices, as well.

Two times a day they fired the old 75 MM pack howitzer (WWii vintage) on the wall to announce reveille or taking down the colors, with bugle calls. Nowadays its probably a recording, but then some band guy got to play it live over the loudspeaker. Sometimes they'd forget to shut off the mike, and you'd get impromtu riffing, follwed by embarassed silence.

It was also Continental Army Command H.Q., overseeing all the commands and armys within the continental U.S. I believe that H.Q. subsequently moved to Ft. Meade. Being enlisted, I walked around all day saluting the platoons of field grade officers who staffed the various directorates.

I went into the Chamberlin Hotel several times a week, to visit their gift shop/newsstand. I was trying to keep my grip on what was happening in the wider world by buying the New York Times, which they had, and the news magazines.As you can imagine, the level of intellectual discourse in my squad bay wasn't real high.

Several of my companions in arms patronized the barber shop, probably seeing the same guy mentioned in the article on the hotel. I was trying to avoid officers, so I stuck to the PX barber.
I had hair at the time.

It was comforting to go into someplace that wasn't painted instituitional green inside, and thronged by folks in khaki, green, or OG107, at least for a little while. It had a real ambiance and there was a sense of times past. I've always been a fan of both.

Google says the hotel is now being transformed into a 50+ community. I hope so, 'cause it's a neat old building.

As an aside, having spent the winter there, with the cold and the fog rolling in off the Virginia Capes, and the foghorn making its distinctive sound, I could appreciate that Edgar Allen Poe, who did a tour there, probably was affected by it. He was a Sgt Major, and besides yours truly, probably one of the most unlikely noncoms to serve in the U.S. Army.

[HwyHaulier]

BoltonSt' -

My, my! An astonishing account! Your recollections truly a bonus in this old thread...

Thank You for your service! I note no hostile forces ever took the beaches in the Tidewater,
in the era of your patriotic duties...

..........................Vern.........................

[BoltonStboy]

Vern:

With all the burned out returnees from South East Asia on post, it would have been interesting to watch if somebody had started something. Your average young american fighting man is usually angry anyhow, what with servitude militaire,and sometimes bad stuff happens as a result. Witness the former Lt. Calleys folks.

The Duke of Wellingtons comment comes to mind- " I don't know what these men do to the enemy, but by God they scare me". Paraphrase, but succinct.

I recall one such during my time there who got so fed up with the "chicken" that he requested to be sent back to Viet Nam. He had the Silver Star from his first visit, for single handedly going to the aid of an outpost of his people in Saigon during Tet. He took a jeep with a .50 cal on it, and rode off to the rescue. Survived, too. Nice guy, didn't look like Sgt. Rock at all.

After that, the stateside army, with its rituals and emphasis on janitorial excellance was onerous, for some reason. That, I could understand. Every Friday night, Elvis Presley in "GI Party". No Anne Margaret, unfortunately. And the cast wasn't singing, either.

I always said the Army taught me skills, in that afterward I was an excellant bootblack and floor buffer operator, not to mention side sink and grease trap, with a minor in potato peeling and eye removal. All valuable life skills.

Ask Brilliner, we revel in our skillset, hard won from virtuosos in profanity with multiple stripes on their sleeves, and real bad attitudes.

I neglected to mention the Summer heat and humidity in the Hampton Roads region. Being a Baltimoron, I was used to it, particularly after my sojourn in the Mekong Delta. I hear things about Savannah and N'orleans, but I'm not inclined to go do on the spot comparisons. I recall my shoes getting moldy, at one point.

[HwyHaulier]

BoltonSt' -

Thanks! Indeed! I've heard and seen the realities of Stateside, and the "...by the book, keeping up appearances...".
It isn't all bad. Note we have over five decades of services from B-52 aircraft. Ah, were other assets kept to such
standards!

Perhaps all for the best? I don't think the general public wants to think on the possibilities that front line duty is
worse than a computer hard drive crash, or Starbucks out of stock on a favored blend...

........................Vern.....................

[Donald H.Flayhart]

FORT MONROE........not to intrude, but no doubt the best source for staying abreast of the latest happenings concerning Fort Monroe, VA is the Newport News based newspaper THE DAILY PRESS, which is also a sister publication to the BAL SUNPAPERS. Tidewater VA includes many military bases, of which scenic Fort Monroe has been a staple for decades. Not too far distant is Fort Eustis, home of the US Army's Transportation Corps, which sports a very fine museum dedicated to the various transport modes employed by the Army.

[RayReter]

I think the situations mentioned in posts above, as well as budgetary concerns, are the reasons President Johnson ruled in either 1967 or 1968 that any serviceman returning from Vietnam with less than 90 days remaining in his tour of duty was to be separated from the service and not reassigned to a stateside facility. When I returned from Vietnam in 1968 I, and most of the fellows in my group, were processed for immediate "separation from service" upon arrival at Fort Lewis, Washington. One day I was a soldier in Vietnam, two days later I was a civilian/veteran on a Baltimore-bound United Airlines 737. -- Ray

[BoltonStboy]

Brother Reter:

Welcome home! Thanks for your service.

Bernie Hackett (boy REMF)